50 50 distribution

Mate, you’re mumbling about how informal I am while adressing your raging negligence. The heavier rear wants to comes around. Voluntarily blocking the rear wheel playing a role to give you a the trajectoire you want on loose terrain . But as we all know, we don’t drive in perfect circles. The Turbo would understeer terribly on the way in to the apex though if not trailbraked quite deeply, so it is almost always trailbraked. Make, model, year? Use MathJax to format equations. However, this is purely from the consideration of traction and doesn’t take into account centrifugal forces acting on the car through the turn. I had a Miata before this. If 345 tires aren’t enough, perhaps the engine needs to sit closer to them. This principle is behind basically all of statistics, probability theory, and statistical mechanics, although it is often disguised in some way. Tire traction is directly proportional to the vertical load on the tire (i.e., a tires traction is directly proportional to the weight that is on it). If they would fit a brake system the same size at the back, the rider would have a really hard time not locking the rear wheel under heavy braking. on bicycle we have two brakes, front and back. The u/Fit_Distribution_50 community on Reddit. At that point, its easy for it to break traction. The 50/50 car rotates at the center of the car which makes for a predictable drift but a less efficient rotation and thus a slower speed in a turn, In the former case you'll get an event that's twice as likely as the others, and the latter you'll get two events that are both as likely as any other. Remember also that static weight distribution changes dramatically under acceleration/braking. var2-40.28 17.177394 Tomorrow rains or not. (Basically putting the driver and the engine in the middle gives smaller moment of inertia than having a transaxle layout and a comfortable legroom. Also I believe because of how soft the suspension was it would have noteworthy balance changes off from 50/50 when accelerating or breaking hard. Bika, I have already covered in the post the older Porsche models which are widely known to be a handful. It was quite convincing, and I believed it for a good 10 years. The 911 is a sexy beast no doubt, but the on-the-limit handling is far from perfect. It sucks. Again, without teaching, you might start asking about what's the practical use of probability if you exclude "PROBABILITY" from it and just list outcomes. Maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen any discussion of driver weight/position. But if you're wrong and you choose again the fraction is now 1 over 3 ... right + wrong, the possible results of your first choice, PLUS the wrong guess you already made, for a total of three outcomes for the one guess ... 1/3 ... and if you keep going you get to 1/10 ... the number of possible guesses for all the numbers that can be chosen is 1/10 ... 10%. They knew that a mid-engine (engine in front of the transaxle, rather than behind it as they did on the 911) layout would perform “better.” And as the author clearly pointed out, “better” involves many things, including accelerating, braking, handling feel, and actual handling performance. Excellent article. @Noiralef Indeed, half of the fun of the joke is that while everyone knows it's a ridiculous way to calculate the probability, It answers the "why?" What's great about this game is you can easily enumerate all possible outcomes to check your math: (H/T is the result of the flip, P1 and P2 are the guesses of player 1 and 2, TIE, WIN, and LOSE are marked with a 1 if that game state occured). How to explain Monty Hall problem when they just don't get it. “Having the weight distribution 50:50 makes the car behave more predictability and more constantly. Explain that 50% chance to win means equal chance of winning and not winning, not that there are two outcomes. As for the handling. Note: I am asking the question here and not on Math SE because it is in my opinion more a matter of how to explain math to children (and accessorily, to their parents), more than a question about probabilities. That’s pretty much all I can think of for now. Don’t discard the notion of control via the throttle pedal either, It’s the single most important part when cornering/accelerating on the limit. To provide 50 Plus Marketplace News at the household level in each community we serve. This is probably the best way to navigate a corner in a 50/50 car (with respect to even loading of outside tyres). for proof of this look no further than its twin the BRZ which has a front bias spring rate that more closely matches natural frequencies between front and rear based on actual chassis weight distribution. If the number doesn't change between guesses then the chance of subsequent guesses being correct goes up. Then you compare that number to the odds of winning if you don't buy a ticket. You are not an expert nor are you educated enough to comment on said topic. That's all the things that can happen. He can enumerate the total number of pairs he has to win against: every choice (3) multiplied by the number of pairs to compare for a choice (2). Take it easy on the test drive. Especially when the brakes are slammed hard. A 50:50 is very good. Different WD, different driving style, different application. You can follow all the replies to this entry through the comments feed. For the twice load, you don’t get twice more lateral grip. Having friction dampers doesn’t help (club regs preventing use of modern telescopics). I know the readers of the blog really don’t car about practicality, but car manufactures do. How do I figure out how many monomer configurations I need for my simulation? So front and rear grip the same. The same can be said of rear-biased cars. Thanks for posting. If you swap driving styles, the forward-bias car will drive straight into a tree, and the rear-bias car will spin sideways into that same tree. a balanced weight distribution would do neither as it would lose traction at the front and rear equally. Don't feel like you have to convince the kid of everything immediately. Find the one for yours here. There is no other way to balance a car in a turn. Also given the responses here. However, you could simulate a lottery at home, using a die. Red you win. Weight dist 47/53 front/aft. Instead of providing any sort of answer, walking your son through reasoning it out himself, providing counterexamples to keep him thinking, will result in a far deeper understanding while likely giving him pride in finding the answer himself (encouraging future curiosity and discovery). he wins but doesn't tie). What is the probability that you will win this bet? Peer review: Is this "citation tower" a bad practice? Praise to you John for trying to explain why 50/50 is not optimum. More rear weight bias in a race car will typically give a faster car (assuming that the suspension is tuned properly as the write of the blog has pointed out multiple time). If the odds of winning are essentially zero, the other items are irrelevant. The same thing applies during braking. How many tickets do you have to buy to have a 50 % chance? If that is important to you it’s something to keep in mind. Dude, I don’t know what evidence you need and how much you have driven a 911 on a track f.e., but some of the statements you make are pretty ignorant. I’m sure you are aware that everything in a car is a compromise and there is no perfect answer; but there are ‘better’ answers than others – even when it comes to weight distribution. The process of taking many shots is used as a way to. All the answers are really interesting, I will have a hard time picking something up for the chosen one (but will upvote all). The Porsche has weight behind the rear tires. 2: rear wheel drive :). Problem is that there isn’t much at the back, other than a solid rear axle (with diff) and the fuel tank, while my leaf spring are also quite light, as they have 5 leaves not 9. The RX-8 and Miata both do. Netgear R6080 AC1000 Router throttling internet speeds to 100Mbps. Have him see that there are tons of blue pieces and only 1 red piece. Virtually all modern road race cars have somewhere between 55-65 of their mass over the rear wheel. Although he did not say it I assume the author was not intending to imply that weight in large amounts actually behind the rear axle would help with turning. Ask him if he wants to play that game, and you shouldn't be surprised if he says no. A Single-Phase, 50 Hz Distribution Line has two conductors in parallel with a distance of 2.25 m apart. I just didn’t have any complaints from these things as everything was very predictable in that car. Equitable distribution law presumes, further, that an equal (50/50) division of the marital property will be equitable. There are already a lot of good answers here, but here's one way to put it in simple terms that even a younger child should be able to comprehend. You seem to have misunderstood him. Mathematics Educators Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for those involved in the field of teaching mathematics. Crack in paint seems to slowly getting longer. The engineers make these cars rear-biased so improve acceleration. Another approach could be to get out of house to some basketball court and take shots blind-folded. Meaning that yes, a 50/50 weight distribution is optimal, but this does not mean that it is ideal for every car. YouTube has plenty of these. Inspired by the AE86, the FR-S is designed around the core goal of achieving “Pure Balance,” which begins with the strategic use of the world’s only flat boxer engine in a front-engine, rear-wheel drive configuration. Now let’s talk cornering at steady speed: of course 50-50 is best for a bike or car assuming tires are identical. Great discussion. But, how that car actually feels in your hands, and how it behaves around corner, is the result of tuning the suspension. Thank you for reading my blog. They try to spread the drivetrain between the front and the rear of the car using rear diff or transaxle and we are happy because it’s not a cheap and slow 1970’s Fiat with more weight on the front. Just to clarify a few misunderstandings on the part of many posters here…. So why isn't it a simple 50/50 gamble? Trail brake, mid to late turn in. 50/50 means little. Every state has its own COVID-19 vaccine distribution plan. This would mean that the front end weight is 1176lbs and a rear weight of 1624lbs and lets say that this hypothetical car has a center of gravity height of 15″ above ground and we will say that this car has a Wheelbase of 100″. I’m not even going to comment statements like: “Do Porsche calipers pinch Porsche rotors any differently than say Corvette rotors pinch theirs? If I am incorrect I am also sure he will correct me. I understand that more weight at the rear makes the car oversteer because it works like a pendulum, but I always thought that lighter rear were more propensity to oversteer because it has less grip on the tires. This is because the front brake locks the front tire and causes the bike to try to rotate and flip over the front. : Congratulations for engaging in discussions about maths with your children! With few exceptions, street cars are generally tuned to have understeer regardless of their weight distribution – they are just safer that way. In closing don’t setup your car based on advice from people who may not know anything about physics at all. * Retail and OEM Part Numbers will be determined by your selected options when you place your order. When we know and hear about events, they become familiar and intensity of the discussion cements the event into our memory more intensely. East Godavari Collector D. Muralidhar Reddy has said that a team of 50 surveyors has been deployed for distribution of house site pattas to the … Maybe the GT86 is better, but neither is a 50/50 setup. Keeping the vast majority of the vehicle mass within the front/rear axes and equal front to rear is the most important thing one can do to achieve great handling, followed by weight distribution. No clue what you're getting at with the "choose a number" thought experiment - the odds of guessing 0-9 correctly in one guess is 1/10, not 1/2. It seems like your a little misinformed on some of the dynamics of handling. Anyhow, its still a car with 4 wheels and tires so the laws of vehicle dynamics still apply. When Porsche built an ultimate supercar (carrera GT) they put the engine in the middle, not behind rear axle. So the chance of winning the lottery is figuring out how many possible guesses there can be ... not if the one you chose is right or wrong. maximise lateral grip. Each ticket is either a winning one or a losing one, and there is only one winning ticket. the American version (FR-S) has an oversteer characteristic. But the acceleration and braking benefits of a rear-heavy car ARE desirable. Or, just go back to definition: "probability for me is chance of winning. There IS a context in which 50:50 weight distribution is IDEAL. This leads a lot of people into believing that this is optimal as far as weight distribution is concerned. They’re working to reduce inertia which is the big drawback to having the engine stick out beyond the wheel axis. When done correctly, the car feels balanced. I don’t want to reduce braking ability or grip, but I also want to achieve a more neutral car which is what I believe a 50:50 weight distribution will give me. The scenario of the guess being right is different than the chance of guessing the right number. Learning how to manage these intense feelings is probably a useful part of the discussion and education about probabilities. Winning the lottery is far more exciting than the concept of wasting money on the ticket. Do this as many times as you think is necessary, or until he gets bored and/or frustrated of losing over and over again. Almost never. It doesn’t really have that much to do with the weight distribution or how fast (lap times) the car is. 50/50 is predictable and balanced, but by no means the ideal. This platform probably has limits on how far the engine can be set back and so on. So you can see that vertical load difference between RR and RL tyres is big. Every car is making compromises to try to get pretty close to these ideals but may prioritize one (say, acceleration) or another (steady speed cornering) and also might prioritize stuff like seating space. Any way i havd just built a vz monaro with ls1 1200kg 270rwk we are limited to 225 tyre size its our only restriction . So that brings us to your Alfa. Unfortunately, alot of rev/gear heads are simple, stupid people. Look at the BRZ-FRS-GT86. But after front and rear anti-sway bars were added those cars handled very well. I did KWs coilivers and have the drop about level on all four corners. This is good for off road in case of suv’s, and also the car will want to rotate around the CG but yes, a bit more to the rear is a better start for a fast RWD car. Can I write my signature in my conlang's script? To get the most out of them, it’s best to trail brake (to keep the front loaded into the corner), get the car pointed asap to the exit, and then power down when straight. This is handling. Making the rear dampers stiffer might give you more oversteer at the entrance of a turn but will only delay the inevitable. Before having chosen a number, you have a 1/10 chance of guessing correctly. The difference is, is how the suspension is tuned. To put it simply a 911 is easier to get oversteer with.especially on braking but it is slightly more slower oversteer than mid engine oversteer because mid engine oversteer is like a spin rather than pendulum effect. The beemers you drive hard in almost the same manner as you would while commuting, and they’ll drive like they are on rails without you thinking about it, but they are a bit cumbersome when swift direction changes are asked of them. A perfect example is the post directly above mine from professor Jay and his bicycle. This very low center of gravity (as explained above) cause much less dynamic weight transfer so the resulting case is not going much past 50/50 during braking. Thanks for posting a professional and intelligent sounding response. And also how the Nissan Delta wing works at all with its rear weight distribution at 72%. Because of this, its hard to look at a street car, especially one as mass produced as a Carrera, and determine why they made a change. I suppose 50/50 is touted as ‘ideal’ in that from that neutral balance, you can access more of each style of cornering. Many people think that a 50-50 distribution is the end-all and most optimal setup for performance, which is simply not true. once you start to oversteer you continue to oversteer. It ALSO allows us to brake later at the end of a straight before corner entry which again is something that we want so to run faster lap times.. A rear engined car will not have better braking because of the positioning of said engine. – Car lover. @MichaelBächtold Indeed I assume that about the son, however, even if the case is different, this misconception gives a nice chance to discuss about relative frequencies - informally, of course - and how could to equiprobable events occur with different frequencies. I think so far best reaction is the top-voted comment: Have you asked him to explain what he thinks “probability” means? Generally speaking, you always want to keep the weight in a car as far back and as low as possible. Only those not clever enough to do the math for themselves will argue that 50/50 is always the ideal and that this is why the mazda miata is such a nice car. Porsche engineers are GODS and that’s the main reason the 911 is so successful, but even they are struggling to make the weight distribution of the 911 more evenly spread by moving the engine slightly forward f.e. - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum, [BLOCKED BY STBV] Amazing Alex Ballast Overload – Allinthenewspapers, [BLOCKED BY STBV] why stagger frt/r wheel & tire sizes? Those touting ’50-50 is always better’ are so silly. Is it possible to make modern power with a gen 1 small block chevy? Consider a game where two players have to guess heads or tails when a coin is flipped. Probably not. The list ranks the best companies to sell for among the top sales forces in the US, encompassing companies of all sizes and sales forces from fewer than 100 salespeople to those with thousands of them. Distribution of Low temperatures for 50 states Fahrenheit The skewed distribution is asymmetrical because a natural limit prevents outcomes on one side. Porsche had to fit excessively large rear tires and introduce AWD to somehow balance the car. It is about where your feet are. Due to the short length of the car, it could be very hard to catch in an oversteer situation. The Physics 101 version would say that the extra weight back there cancels this out but in reality it’s not so linear. Streetcars are easier to understand these days than those 1960’s porsches, because for the most part, their dynamics are dictated by the litigious society we live in. It can be old(ish) but preferrably something that isnt too exotic in my part of the world (continental europe). Or, imagine a lottery with 100 tickets, of which only one was a winner. Also, the scenario of a guess being correct is no different from the scenario of guessing correctly. But when Luigi, Sofia and 3 bambini is travelling together it might be a rear biased weight distribution. This is one reason why even mid/rear engine sportscars don’t have their engines positioned all the way back. But speaking anecdotally, the 50/50 weight and the slight steady state (aka skippad) minor understeer seem to translate well on the track. Surely, pushing the car through a high speed sweeper at racing speeds must have taken a substantial amount of skill and courage. But, as stated above, I agree that a good weight distribution is the starting point. If porsche decided to build a competitor for 911 around a car like cayman and gave same same amount of resources, materials and time to it, it would have ended up being a significantly better performance car than 911. Additional, a stiffer roll bar would be required out back, no? I’ve added massive tyres all round and this has massively affected the cornering speed amd turn in. (Lapsing into math), of course the probability of each outcome is not 50% just because there are two possibilities. this was done to make the car more stable and predictable over bumps/uneven surfaces. With few exceptions, street cars are generally tuned to have understeer regardless of their weight distribution – they are just safer that way… This did not bother me at all. You can youtube footage easy dirtcircuitsa. Under braking, i think what happens is the cars tend to oversteer because the load on the rear axle tends to reduce to almost zero. Just chill. Now a rear bias certainly gives you more grip out of a turn which is of course an advantage, Anyone who disagrees with me just lift off the gas after apex and see what happens. Either you win or you lose. But Porsche wanted the two small rear seats in the 911. It was extremely snappy and quick to bite at the limit, but leagues faster than its nearest competitor. I'd address the topic from here. Both affect driving characteristics. I am trying to understand why my car handles so poorly. Although he did not say it I assume the author was not intending to imply that weight in large amounts actually behind the rear axle would help with turning. I have a 2008 Audi TT MK2 with the 2.0 motor and FWD. By having a slightly heavy rear end, the trail braking allows for the weight to be roughly 50/50 as we pass through the apex of the corner which is what we want. This can also help earlier corner exit. Buying exactly half the lots should give you a 50% chance of winning the major prize. How to explain that winning the lottery is not a 50/50 distribution? I guarantee you’ll find that in hard-acceleration traction testing, extreme rear weight bias is best. Rear bias weight distribution is better for number of reasons BUT having too much rear weight means in mid turns the car will understeer on power, this is exactly the tendency of rear weight bias car. This notion of "probability distribution" can be a good way to put words to the notion that just because you have X possibilities, doesn't mean they all have to be equally likely... and that saying they are is in fact a very specific thing to say, something you'll only do under specific circumstances (either they actually are equally likely, or you have no information to say they aren't and thus follow the Principle of Insufficient Reason). Replacing the core of a planet with a sun, could that be theoretically possible? The same applies to "you win" or "you don't win". But in those days, look at the tires and suspensions they were working with. If you look at any purpose built race car from the late 1950’s onward, you will find none that have a 50/50 distribution. I believe I read that the ideal for cornering would be for the weight to be very near the CG, as this minimizes the moment of inertia and thus torque required to turn. Here is why, in a racing type situation, we typically use a style called trail braking (in a car its similar but still slightly different then trail braking on a motorcycle). The 911 (I’ve driven one for 20+ years) was initially designed as a compromise. As a result it develops understeer in slow corners where lateral G is not high. If you were right (and you’re most definitely NOT) why haven’t other automakers developed cars with engines behind the rear axle??? Taking only the largest polygon from multi-polygon layer in QGIS. The fact is that my Porsche race car chews through rear brake pads slightly faster then my fronts but I have it biased to use maximum net brake force. I enjoyed all the posts. When you are making a car go through a corner, of any radius, you are making it rotate not turn if you wish to go fast. Versatility! Since the motorcycle mech. The corvette c7r ( racing version) I believe is a 50/50 distribution car and is a very successful winning le mans multiple times and 2016 weathertech sports car series, 12 hours sebring, Daytona etc.

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